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Monday, April 25, 2011

Gods are delicate things. They can be easily consumed by a hint of science or a trace of common sense.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Gods are born. Die. They anger and lust. They even get indigestion (just ask Cronus). It's amazing how human they are.

Anonymous said...

you mean, your relationship with him can be consumed by a hint of science or what you think of as common sense.

@Anonymous how do you know so much about gods? You met one before?

Marcus Myself said...

Gods are delicate, they are merely reflections of our hopes and fears; our wonders and out desires. Any single god is delicate and yet the concepts endure through all humanity. Even science is a god. What I believe in is people, I find entire universes in the people I talk to every day. Stare into someones eyes and let yourself feel them - it is a wondrous thing.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous how do you know so much about gods? You met one before?

That depends. :)

Does Mother Earth count as a god? If so, I've met her. I'm part of her. Just as a cell in my body is part of my universe. We don't travel in the same circles, though. Sadly, it seems inevitable that someday, Mother Earth will die.

If we're talking Christian, then let's remember we just finished celebrating the death and resurrection of Jesus. And Yaweh, from all accounts, bears a striking resemblance to a fully robed and bearded Charleton Heston (think: The Ten Commandments). We are made in His image, of course, which implies a similar biology, which in turn implies senescence, and death. I've often wondered why our Christian God has a penis and anus, and to what uses He might put them. Perhaps you can help elucidate this interesting topic?

The Greek gods were also anthropomorphic, of course. Lusty gods, unashamed of their sexuality and not in the least reluctant to put their parts to good use in very traditional ways. Pan and ironically, Asclepius, both bit the dust.

Hindu and Buddhist gods pose more of a problem, biologically speaking. Buddhism of course has many variants, ranging from the New Age-ish Alan Watts happy-happy variety to good toothy Tibetan Buddhism with its demons and fully-accoutered hell. Some Buddhists believe the ultimate goal is true death (ending the terrible wheel of incarnation). The following story sums up the situation:

The great Brahmin priest stood atop the hill, looking at the small goat he was about to sacrifice. Thousands of faithful waited below. As the priest lifted his knife the young goat began to cry. The priest, astonished that a goat could cry, said "Do not fear, little goat. You will soon be with God."

"I do not cry for myself," said the goat. "I cry for you." Even more surprised, the priest asked, "I am the highest priest in the land! Why cry for me?" The goat turned its head. "Do you see that old tree standing next to the temple entrace?" The priest answered. "Of course. That tree has lived for a thousand years." The goat persisted. "How many leaves are there on the tree?" The priest, dumbfounded and exasperated, answered. "It is impossible to count them all, they are so many." The goat's eyes were brown and soft. "Just so many lives ago," said the goat, "I, too, was a great Brahmin priest."

(Source: the Brahmin and the Goat is a retelling of a traditional story, written and posted by me ages ago, at I Wrote This For You).

The Dreamer said...

:)

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous.

I happen to be a Christian. This may make you guys think of yourselves as better than me because I don't think "logically" or "scientifically", but that doesn't matter. Also because I am a Christian, I will ignore those other "gods" that you speak of.

You ask why God would have an anus or reproductive organs. He doesn't He is in a spiritual realm and doesn't require any of those things.

You mention that we lust, lust is an intense sexual desire and the first humans (Adam, and Eve) did not have until they sinned. Yes he intended that we reproduce and are rewarded with pleasure for doing so, but there's nothing wrong with that. When Adam and Eve first met, they didn't have extreme sexual desires but acted friendly. Adam was happy that he had company and gave Eve her name. They knew if they wanted to have kids they would have to have sexual intercourse to reproduce, and extreme sexual desires weren't driving them to reproduce not knowing what would happen, but when they did reproduce, they were rewarded with pleasure.

You give the impression that God is perverted and has extreme sexual desires. Yes he did impregnate the "virgin Mary" but there's a reason they call her "virgin Mary" for she didn't experience any sexual intercourse in her life time. So that means God just magically poofed Jesus into her womb without the Sexual Desires. If there were sexual desires, the bible would of mentioned it.

What you're talking about comes the tree of knowledge of good and evil. People now days look at people with lust. God himself said not to do this for they are committing adultery in their minds. Adultery is one of the commandments you aren't supposed to break.

You mention that God's die but that is not true for he is always and forever. Yes people die but not their soul. Also God mentioned to Adam and Eve if they do eat from the tree of knowledge and good and evil, they will surely die. Though they did not right away, but they aren't alive today so they did die.

Let's not turn this into a debate whether God exists or not, I was just responding to your claims.

Misspacman if you're reading this, I understand that you may be annoyed and do not care at all of what we are talking about. But I do what I will to defend my beliefs.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous Do you happen to be Misspacman08?? I was just wondering because the way you write really reminds me of her :D

Heather-Maria said...

lol, debate away you two. and for the record, no, neither of these 'Anonymous' people are me.

Anonymous said...

@@anonymous

Miss Pacman is quite a bit prettier than I. I'm just an old retired guy who is here because way back when, I happened across a video of hers on Youtube where she lamented that no one seemed to be paying attention to the intellectual content of her essays. In reading the comments, I realized she was right. I thought many of her essays were interesting and thought-provoking, so I decided to chime in now and then, when something she writes strikes my fancy.

Personally, I could care less who believes what-- just as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process. I sincerely hope your beliefs bring you much happiness and fulfillment. When it comes to dogmatic creeds of any flavor, though, my God is Mark Twain:

Heaven goes by favour.
If it went by merit, you would stay out
and your dog would go in.

Man is the religious animal.
He is the only religious animal.
He is the only animal that has the True Religion--
several of them.


Two questions, though, if I may, since you are obviously a sincere and committed Christian:

1) In your view, since I by choice am not Christian, what happens to me after I die? Do I go to hell? Do I cease to exist? Purgatory? Something else?

2) Many of us give thanks to God before eating a meal, or thank God after a beloved relative survives an accident, or thank Him even when we (hypothetically speaking, I can only hope . . . ) win the lottery.

But . . . how come God never seems to have any responsibility when things go wrong in the universe? When suns explode, worlds collide, climate change destroys species, a baby dies from a congenital heart defect, a truck runs over the family dog, or a lottery ticket doesn't pay off? It seems a bit of a double standard: God gets credit anytime something good happens, but is never held responsible for all the bad stuff.

achigurh said...

last july found me, anton chigurh, drivin down an empty road through the desert. now what i was doing there ain't FOR you so pay me no mind. what's important is that i found jesus. yessir, i came about a bend and right goddamm smack in front on me stood an antelope the size of a moose.

i turned the wheel and hit the brakes; sliding to a stop a yard or two from the beast. i gulped down a breath and looked over and sure if that antelope hadn't even of moved! i rolled down the window and we both looked at each other. i broke the ice and asked, "standing here of all places is gonna git ya killed..unless you're the second coming of jesus or somethin'." well now that antelope looked as bored as all hell while i was chattin' him up...until the name jesus came up. i saw a flicker cross his eyes and a nostril flare like i knew something i wasn't supposed to.

long story short we spent some quality time out there in that desert and while i sure think religion is a waste of time and i have no idea if there is a god or not....what i can tell ya is that somewhere...somewhere out in the west desert right at this very minute is an antelope who answers to the name jesus.

Anonymous said...

@achigurh,

Great story. :)

Maybe the antelope was Mexican?

Anonymous said...

@anonymous

You asked me if by my view if you're going to hell. Well I believe if you aren't committed to God and don't repent of your sins than you are going to hell.

You also asked about why bad things go wrong in this universe. I don't think stars blowing up or species going extinct are bad things. Maybe we caused the weather to change and for the species to go extinct. About babies getting heart failures. I read a story in the Bible about this Farrow (some kind of king) he was doing very bad things like making thousands of people his slaves so God sent an angel of death to kill his son because the Farrow earned it. I think random diseases that kill babies are just very bad karma for the parents. I also believe in karma because I observe very closely at it and notice it many times a day.

Steve said...

@anonymous

random diseases that kill babies are just very bad karma for the parents

Doesn't seem very fair to the baby. Why punish the innocent instead of just punishing the wrongdoer?

jon said...

@steve
seams fair enough for the baby. The baby doesn't have to live in this terrible world having a chance to go to hell. The punishment and pressure is all on the parents.

Steve said...

@jon,

So . . . God is doing the baby a favor by painfully killing it with disease, just so the poor baby can die and avoid going to hell? Then why create the baby in the first place? Seems rather cruel.

Perhaps God would do better by making the baby healthy and happy, and do away with hell altogether. That would seem like a much better Creation to me. Win-win.

Jon said...

Our minds are limited by this reality. We are not to judge what God does. Also God didn't make the choice to make the baby. It was the parents choice. All the bad pressure are on them and they do not deserve to have that Baby. Also God isn't the one killing the baby. The evil doing of the parents are and God is allowing it to happen. God didnt intend we be robots that love him. He gave us free will to do what we will. And some of us make bad decisions and have to pay for what we done by burning in the painful timeless hell.

Steve said...

We are not to judge what God does.

If God gave me a conscience, how can He demand I not use it? Seems rather schizoid.

Also God didn't make the choice to make the baby

There are things that happen in the world which are *not* God's will? Things that are out of his control? So . . . who *is* responsible for typhoid germs that kill a baby? Does God have no responsibility for the creation and presence of germs?

He gave us free will to do what we will

If the President gives one of his soldiers the freedom to do what he will, and the solider murders people, the Prez is (at least theoretically) responsible. If you give your 5-year-old boy a loaded rifle, and the boy kills someone or injures himself, you can't claim it's not your fault because you gave your son freedom to do what he wanted. You should have known what you were doing was reckless. God, being omnipotent and all, should know that many humans can't handle free will. The buck stops at God's desk.

God didnt intend we be robots that love him

Hmmm. If someone says, "Either love me, or I'm going to boil you in molten sulphur for all eternity", it doesn't sound very much like an exercise of "free will" or true "love". It sounds like extortion and coercion . . . using disproportionate cruelty and punishment.

some of us make bad decisions and have to pay

Just look at the world. Do spiders eating flies have "free will"? Why are non-humans forced to suffer? Have they sinned?

As to humans, if God gave humans free will knowing many of them couldn't handle it, and if God intended to send the ones who couldn't handle free will to hell, that's like a teacher telling his class that all the little tykes who don't get 'A's will be butchered and boiled in sulphur, and then tortured in hell for eternity.

It would show much more love if God would instead provide remedial classes, a better home and learning environment, and better vocational training, rather than just chucking the failures into hell. It sounds like God has made rather serious errors in his Design and Implementation. And that's the charitable explanation. If God intended the world the way it is, then He's the ultimate Psychopath. If He intended that most humans (and all animals?) be cast into hell for eternity, only because a human using the brain and conscience that God Himself provided, is dilatory in having "faith" or "accepting Jesus", or "loving God" (who would want to love a being that creates creatures knowing that most of them will be tortured for eternity?), that doesn't sound like a god I'd want to worship.

What God should do, in my opinion, is to come clean and admit His mistakes and the flaws in His Creation, end hell, rehabilitate all those poor souls which have been boiling horribly in sulphur all these eons, change his management policy from theory x to theory y, get to work improving biochemistry so that living beings don't have to kill other beings to survive (no more "law of the jungle"), and hope that His beings choose to love Him of their own free will, because He is actually loveable, rather than loving Him out of the fear of eternal punishment. In short, God should shape up, take responsibility for the not-so-good aspects of His Creation, and use this constructive criticism to make a better universe. Give love to His creation, instead of punishment and threat.

Anyway, that's my two cents. If God were to adopt these modest suggestions, we'd all be able to enjoy a much improved universe. Win-win. After all, God is omnipotent. He can do anything He likes. If He wants to change the world, it's a mere snap of His Fingers. So let us all pray. Let us pray that God hear our prayer to re-create a better world, a world that knows only happiness and joy, a world in which pain and suffering no longer exist. A world which is perfect, and good and happy.

jon said...

I can't properly respond due to the 4096 character limit. I'm going to wait for Misspacman to get online so I can post in 2 different parts.

jon said...

nvm im done, this arguing is starting to feel pointless.

if you happen to be a billionaire...